Feature with Mavo Edge 8K Questions

Sean_Conley

Hey everyone. I’ve shot 2 features on the Mavo LF, and 2 features on the Edge 6K.

I’m thinking of shooting my next feature in a few months on the Edge 8K.

Is there anything specific about the Edge 8K that I need to be conscious of? In terms of exposing, does the sensor need more light, is it more forgiving in the shadows for instance?

If anyone has shot extensively with the Edge 8K, just anything you were surprised by or issues you ran into.

I know the LF sensor so well after 5 years of shooting with it, but wanted to try something different on this one.

Jerome

Het Sean! with the edge 8k I want to add that the sensor loves light, keeping the analogue gain low is a great thing to do, to get extremely clean images, try 160 iso hs 3.4 its amazing. do some latitude test, set up a chart a person, do under and over exposure tests, and our lut also does wonders to the full image, if you nail it you will be amazed how much color and contrast fidelity this camera has.

Sean_Conley

Copy this Jerome. Thank you. A majority of this film takes place at night and from the frames we have been referencing, a lot of the exposure will be in the toe of the image, 0-20 IRE. Curious if you have found a sweet spot both with ISO and highlight stops shooting in the toe of the image on the 8K?

Doing some tests right now, in ISO mode at 160, the highlight stops only go down to 4.3. Same in EI mode for that matter.

Planning to use T1.5 - T1.9 lenses which will be beneficial as well.

I’m also still hoping the False Color EL Zone System makes it way to the Kinemon’s in time for this feature. Currently there aren’t any colors down in those lower digit ratios.

Jerome

@“Sean_Conley” #p1381, I made a typo; I meant 4.3. Generally, most technicalities involving highlight stops can be dismissed. The rule of thumb is that 4.3 strikes a nice balance between shadows and highlights, ensuring nothing weird happens. If you aim for the lowest stops, you’ll inevitably introduce chroma noise, general noise, and a loss of contrast. However, the lower you go in terms of ISO, the less amplification, and thus cleaner shadows, but if you find yourself shooting and underexposing at 160, it’s better to switch to 800 and avoid underexposure. The general rule of thumb is that the more light you feed a sensor, the lower the amount of noise, but this also heightens the risk of clipping. Therefore, if I had to choose between underexposing at a low ISO, with the loss of contrast and detail, versus shooting at a higher ISO and achieving good exposure, I would always opt for the latter. You can utilize the color zone system by simply setting it to display Kinelog3 instead of Rec709 and using a small H monitor with the zone system set to ARRI LOG C. Just one last important question: what’s the reason for wanting to underexpose? Is it to protect specular highlights, or simply because you don’t have enough light?

Sean_Conley

Jerome Hey Jerome, I wanted to follow up one what you talked about a few weeks ago.

I shot a bunch of low light tests last night and day time tests today, moving the ISOs around as well as the highlight stops.

The default Highlight Stop is 5.0, but you mention that 4.3 strikes a nice balance between shadows and highlights ensuring nothing weird happens. Should that be 5.0 in this instance?

You also mention switching to 800 ISO, did you mean 640 as that is the default ISO on the Edge 8K.

I’m coming from the Edge 6K where I always left it at 800 ISO and Highlight Stops 6.0, even at 5120. I would just light to this.

On the next feature I am planning to change things up and adjust highlight stops for exteriors and low light interiors.

I just need a base highlight stop to start with. I was planning to use the default 5.0 stops and then adjusting as necessary.

I leave in a week but I will try to post the images from the tests or export a video and upload it to YouTube.

Sean_Conley

The references we have for this film have been Dark, Arrival, Mare of Easttown, Outer Range, where the toe of the image is down in the lower 0-20 IRE values. This frame from Arrival for instance.

In the past when I have tried to bring down the image in the grade, it usually ended up still being too “bright” of a look. I’ve always been too afraid to shoot into the darkness for fear of noise and underexposing. So I’ve always lit for 800 and not really touched the highlight stops or ISO. But I wanted to try to be more bold with the look and lean into the darkness.

My plan would be to have enough light to shoot down at 320, or even 250 if our lighting package has enough power to do that, and just protect the highlights and shoot more for the lower end of the image. Basically try to get the look as close to possible on set. Maybe give a little more knowing we could bring it down slightly if we need to but commit to it.

I’m shooting some tests this week. You’ve shot some lowlight with the Edge 8K, and color fidelity was still there.

I’m using the Kinemon’s, I don’t own a SmallHD monitor so I can’t use the zone system.

Jerome

Sean_Conley Hey Sean, If you do not overexpose by means of clipping Iam sure you can land on this look, but it depends on your colorist. As you might know a sensor collects light lineary, its unlike a film stock not captured with roll off. these are features that are added digitally. If you can send me some test footage as tiffs (stills) will do, I will send you some advice, and some workflows how you can properly tune down the footage shot with the Edge 8K. Looking forward to some stills, so I can show your our workflow.

Sean_Conley

Hey Jerome,

I made a folder with more examples so it wouldn’t just be massive images on this forum.

TAHB Reference Images

I’ll try to shoot some tests and send them to you.

Thank you.

Jerome

Sean_Conley Hey Thank you for the reference images, you may post them here as well, thats fine for me, we have good hosting. and like this everyone can see what we are talking about. looking forward for your tests, for your tests you also may want to add tiff files uncompressed , i can open up a dropbox, but good to post these stills here as jpgs as well

Miguel G

Thank you very much for developing this topic. In the near future I have a project in which I will also have to work with the lights like this. Just as with the Mavo LF I had more control over the image in low light situations with the Mavo Edge 8K I am always more hesitant. The camera is amazing and I think that if we get the way to work well in these light situations it can make it an even better camera. I’ll keep an eye on your thread and if I can contribute something let me know.

Sean_Conley

Miguel G Hey Miguel. Have you shot much in low light with the Edge 8K? I am going to shoot some tests soon at different ISO’s at highlight stops to try to find a sweet spot.

Having shot on both the Edge 6K and 8K, what has been your takeaways?

Miguel G

Sean_Conley I haven’t shot much but I have found that if you get the right combination of parameters it is a camera that can be perfectly fine for low light images. I generally shoot at 2560iso and lowering the HLs to 4.3. If for whatever reason I need to retain some high light better I usually lower the iso a bit and at most set HLs to 5.3.

I will be very interested in the test you can do to see different options. Even if it is more interesting to use the ETTL LUTs.

Sean_Conley

I’m curious if there is any benefit to using an ETTL LUT that makes the image appear darker, so you expose a stop more than you need. That way you can light as dark as you want but still have some extra room for cleaner shadows, knowing that you will bring it down a stop in the grade. Or is this basically ETTR?

Jerome

Sean_Conley For the edge8K the rule of thumb is the lower the ISO the better I generally use 160 iso and 4.3 hs. But indeed the base is 640 iso. If you shoot at 5.0 hs you wont be able to go to 160 ISO. thats the nature of how hs works, it takes down the iso (analogue gain), but pushes the digital gain. Hence you have more distribution the the highlights. But basically at 250 iso and 5hs you are just shooting at 160 iso gain, so the same image with a slight push. The differences will be slightly different because it also alters the log curve, but if you shoot 160 iso or 250 in 5.0 and keep the shutter and lens T stop the same, you are basically recording the same image where with 5.0 hs you have a digital push. I prefer ettl luts, and no messin with Iso hs , thats why I keep iso hs at the lowest.

Sean_Conley

Jerome Copy. Do you have ETTL LUTs for the Edge 8K?

I also don’t like having to remember highlight stops. On the Mavo LF I shot with your +1 LUTs for 2 features. And with the Edge 6K I have just always shot at 800 and HS 6.0 in both dual natives.